Empathy in Action: Jody Zarn on Building Human Connections Beyond Labels

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Living the Dream Podcast with Curveball. If you believe, you can achieve. Welcome to the Living the Dream with Curveball Podcast, a show where I interview guests that teach, motivate, and inspire. Today's guest is Jodi Zorn. She is an author, corporate trainer, and TDX speaker, and her work revolves around empathy, mental health, and the power of human connection. We're going to be talking about a friendship that she formed with a homeless man. And Jodi wants to let everybody know a look beyond the label and uh you know uh think about the human because no matter what we go through or what we do or what label we have, we all are human beings. So we're going to be talking to Jodie about that and everything that she's up to and gonna be up to. Jody, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Yeah, thanks for having me, Curtis. This will be great.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Why don't you start off by telling everybody a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Sure, sure. So um, yeah, like you mentioned, I'm a corporate trainer in uh Canada. So uh that's kind of my daytime nine to five job, but my real passion is is helping people and through small random acts of kindness, I sometimes call myself a freelance philanthropist because sometimes you just fall into opportunities where you can help somebody in the community. And that's you know, those experiences have really changed the trajectory of my life. And so yeah, like uh the whole story that I have to share is based on buying people coffee and and helping just random strangers as you go about your day and how profoundly we can change people's lives just through those small acts of kindness.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Yeah. So so tell us about uh how your friendship started with the homeless man and tell us what that taught you about, what the friendship taught you about empathy, dignity, and human connection.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Sure, sure. Well, it's it's a wild story, you know. I never thought that uh that it would things would happen the way they did, but it's a it's a crazy story. So so I work downtown in in the city where I live. It's our offices are above a shopping mall. And so uh the fall of 2019, I hadn't been working at this place very long and and it was early November and it was, you know, just starting to get cold up here in Canada. And um, you know, up here in the winters, it can be like wildly cold to the point where if your car breaks down on the highway, you're at risk of freezing to death very easily. And so as I headed into work that morning, it was still dark out, it was early, and and uh I I got into the lobby of the mall where my office is located, and there were two gentlemen standing on either side of the mall or the lobby. And um, I, you know, you're not entirely sure that they're homeless, but they they definitely look like they were down on their luck, and and it was cold out, and I noticed that neither one of them had like a proper coat on, which uh just can't happen up here in that kind of weather. So I thought, well, these guys could use a coffee. I haven't bought anybody a coffee for a while. So I headed into a coffee shop that was nearby and I got them each a coffee and and uh a muffin. And as we do with social media, like if we do anything from getting a new hairdo or buying lunch or whatever, we put it on social media. And my friends and followers were quite used to me sharing, you know, my little uh adventures, buying people coffee. So they were used to it. So I snapped a quick photo and and um away I went. And so the the first man was a young guy, probably in his early 20s, you know, six feet tall. I I noticed instantly that he was missing the fingers on one of his hands. And uh I asked him if he'd like his coffee, and he said, Yeah, sure. He was super happy. And so the second guy was on the other side of the lobby, and and he was, I would say, late 60s, and um, again, no proper jacket, his pants were all ripped up. And as I approached him, I noticed that he was visually impaired, he couldn't see me. And so I approached and I said, Hi. And I said, uh, I've got a tea or a coffee. I it was tea the coffee the first time, and uh I said, I got a coffee and a muffin. Um, would you like some breakfast? And he said, I don't like coffee, but uh, I'll take the muffin. So, so that was that. And you know, I didn't think anything of it because you know, I'd been doing this for years and years, and uh, so I just fully expected to not see him again. So I went up to work and that was that. And uh the next day when I returned, he was he was back there, and I thought, hmm, I wonder if he's back here because he he's hoping that I might buy him buy him a cup of tea or something. So I I approached him and I said, Hi. And I said, I know you don't like coffee, but can I get you something else? And he said, Yeah, I'd love a green tea. And he said, Are you the same person as yesterday? And I said, Yeah. And he says, uh, what's your name? So I said, Jody, and he said, Well, I'm Leroy. And from that meant moment forward, we were best buddies. Uh Leroy would show up uh every morning, and uh uh in the in the corner of the mall where the doors were, there was uh a little phone booth there. So it was kind of handy because he could he could stand in this little corner and he would be safe from anybody who was passing by who maybe wasn't terribly friendly, and he had a spot where he could set his teas too. So every morning I would I would bring him, you know, sandwiches from home and supplies, like, you know, socks or mitts or whatever he needed. And I'd go up to my office and I'd make him tea and we'd have a little visit every morning. So piece by piece, uh, you know, 10 minutes a day for for weeks, I got a chance to get to know Leroy and and get to know his history and and his story. And I think that, you know, there are so many preconceived notions about who our homeless community members are and and what type of people they are, the character that they they have. But, you know, Leroy was was really a special person because he came from a middle class life that anybody would aspire to. And um he was wildly, wildly intelligent and became homeless, you know, in a way that many of us could also end up on the streets. He had an eye surgery that went bad and he lost his vision. Uh, his relationship with his life partner ended and she kicked him out of the house. Um, he suffered from mental health issues. And so it was kind of like this, you know, perfect storm of everything happening all at once. And before I knew it, he was on the streets and uh couldn't couldn't get back to having long-term accommodations. So we began our friendship, and I never thought for a second that I could save him because I don't work in mental health, I don't work in social services. I, you know, I certainly didn't have enough money to like pay for rent for him. So I thought, well, the best I can do is be a friend to him and I can I can be the sandwich girl. And so by doing that, I gave him a safe space to have somebody that he could trust. And we went on a on a life-changing journey that we eventually were able to get him off the streets and get him into long-term accommodations and um, you know, really impact people all over the country through sharing our story.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Well, talk about what assumptions about homelessness, trauma, and human behavior this uh relationship with Leroy challenged for you.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Yeah, great question. So, you know, I think the biggest thing for me was like I didn't know anything about homelessness or or or homeless people. I never had had a relationship with a homeless person before. So I didn't really know what to expect. And I I didn't think I could I could do anything for him. I was really, you know, I made sure not to promise anything to him because I I didn't think I could really change his life. And and, you know, one one of the biggest things that I've learned over the course of our journey together, and even in recent years, is that, you know, the small things have the biggest impact. And that can be in a in a positive way and it can be in a negative way too. Uh I I really underestimated the power of just having those 10-minute conversations with him, or just hearing a story, or or encouraging him, or validating that he was a good person. And um for him, that was more important than you know, $100, really, because uh living on the streets, it's easy to eventually start to feel like you're invisible and that you're not worthy, and that this is going to be your lifetime, you know, of hardship and that that you maybe are a bad person. And and so for him, being able to have a conversation with me, it showed him that he wasn't alone. And by me being able to validate him, like Leroy, you are a good person and you're smart, and I see that. Um, that reminded him that he was still a valuable person who still had a lot to offer the world. And it's funny, yeah, this past December, I went to a homeless conference here in the city and they made a little video of people who had been on the streets. And and one gentleman he said the same thing. He said, he said, I was invisible out there, and people were afraid to look at me. People wouldn't smile at me. It was like I was wasn't even there. And he said, just even having a day where someone would make eye contact with me and smile, uh, that was enough to get them through the day. So I think one of the biggest things was just recognizing that that um those small acts can really make a big difference to somebody's day, especially when you know their entire life is burdened with hardship. And um, you know, it's it's funny. Like I just saw on Facebook the other day there were some conversations online about homelessness. And and it's funny, like uh uh some of the comments were, yeah, like these homeless people, like um they're not likely Roy. They're they're just addicts or they're they're mentally ill. And the way it was framed, it was as if, you know, suffering from addictions or being having mental health challenges made you a bad person and and less than and maybe not deserving of of good treatment or social support. And the fact is, you know, like we all have mental health issues at some point in our life, you know, nobody gets through this life unscathed. And, you know, um having an addiction doesn't make you a bad person because loads and loads and loads of people, you know, who even maybe make six six figures suffer from addictions in some shape or form. And it still doesn't make you a bad person, and it doesn't make you unworthy of having a place to live and and good treatment. So that's where I think the the empathy really comes into play is that we really need to remember that the people that we see on the streets, they're all still they're human beings. They've got parents, they've got family who are worried about them, who maybe don't even know where they are. They've got friends, they maybe had careers and and huge accomplishments in their lives that nobody knew about. Um, Leroy, for example, was um the very best checkers player in all of Canada, and he was the third best in Barbados and the 12th best in the entire world. And I didn't know anything about checkers before, but apparently it's just as challenging a game as as chess is. And, you know, he was wildly recognized and very well known even in the Canadian and American uh checkers world. And um yeah, he he was a great guy. So so all our our people who suffer from adversity, everybody is still a person at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Yeah, I can tell you, as being a good checker player, I haven't played it in a while that I've never played chess, but you you definitely have to think a couple moves ahead. If I do this, you know, uh the person can do this and do that. So yeah, it it can definitely be challenging. I I love chuckers and uh even though he's visually impaired, they do have accessible checkerboards. So hopefully he's still playing out there.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Yeah, he's uh he was very, very smart. So so Leroy actually passed away in the fall of 2021. And um, you know, before he he passed away, though, we were able to connect him with some of his checkers friends from abroad. So I think that was that was really special to him because it he plea he would play checkers in his mind. Like I don't know if you've seen that show, The Queen's Gambit, on Netflix, but uh she, the main character in that show, would play chess in her mind and visualize it on the ceiling. And that's exactly what he did. And he said that kept his mind sharp so that when he was facing all these like life or death decisions when he was on the streets, you know, trying not to get murdered or stabbed, um, that kept his mind sharp so he could stay alive out there.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Well, talk about what leaders can learn from your story about empathy, culture, and connection.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Yeah, that's a big one, you know, especially in today's business world and our corporate world. So, you know, in in the workplace, you know, we have lots of demands, you know. Lots of times you go into work and you know, there's these objectives that everybody's trying to hit. There's there's all these projects and milestones that people are, you know, are are working towards. And um it's it's very easy to get caught up in in progress and and reports and and that kind of thing. And and it's it's so easy for the society as at a large to forget that we are people behind at the end of the day, the foundation is is we are people and human connection is the foundation of everything that we do. And if we're working with people, you know, I think empathy can sometimes be seen as like this fluffy soft skill. It's like hugs and prayers, you know, and just kumbaya, that kind of thing. And then it's not really that important because you just need to come in and, you know, report your status and get your work done. But, you know, often what happens is that if we forget the human behind the computer, then we're not, we're, we're really, we're missing out on understanding how people operate and why they operate and and maybe why they react to certain situations that the way they do and and what their needs are. And you know, corporate culture is a big thing. You know, if you walk into a department where the culture isn't so good or morale is down or productivity is down, uh, turnover is high, that kind of thing. Maybe you've got a lot of people taking sick days, that kind, that kind of thing. What we really need to think about is okay, I am working with this individual and there's clearly something going on, maybe they're not meeting their objectives. So, what is the why there? What is the backstory that's going on with that person? And it doesn't mean that we're going to be best friends and, you know, um hug it out. It means that what we all need to do is kind of like stop, drop, and roll if there's a fire, but stop, drop, and and be curious, you know, take a breath and be curious about, you know, what's going on with your backstory, what's going on with your life, you know, what and if we can get a sense of of just getting to know that person and and listening without agenda, just truly hearing. And uh, you know, that's a tough one to do because often we'll listen and before before the person's done talking, we've already formulated our reply. So we actually haven't heard the person. So if you can just listen with an open, open heart, you know, sounds super fluffy, but if you can just listen without agenda uh to truly hear what the person is saying and then ask the questions and be curious to really dig deeper as to, okay, so now I understand what your backstory is. Now I can understand, you know, why you're reacting in a certain way and what your needs are, then we can we can help improve relationships and we can help people feel, you know, like they're being heard and that they have value in their workplace. And people will work harder for you when they're engaged and they feel valued. Um, one of the biggest things that I learned with Leroy was that um he for I think for years he never felt like he was valued and that the world didn't value him because they just saw him as a blind man or a homeless man or somebody with mental health issues. And so when I was able to build that relationship with him and and give him that validation, saying, Yeah, man, like you are super smart. Like I, you are ridiculously smart. And he was, like it wasn't lip service. Um, he really blossomed. And then we were able to build that foundation. And, you know, I recognized to him, like I couldn't, I couldn't stay alive on the streets. You know, what you do night after night, fighting off murderers and attackers and, you know, navigating the city in minus 40 to below weather and and you know, getting around on your own, like that takes a level of grit and street smarts that I just wouldn't have. And so being valued as a person or as an employee, being heard, truly heard by by your team members and being understood and having that be a safe place, that will improve productivity, that will improve culture. You know, your retention will stay because people don't leave corporations, they leave, they leave people, you know, they leave teams, they put they leave places where they don't feel like they have a part, part in the in the world. And so, yeah, I think our story with Leroy has has a lot of value in not only just the community or in the mental health world, but and in the education system in the workplace too, because I think there's a lot of employees out there who who who don't feel that sense of you know human connection or value or or validation, and um it's demoralizing.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Yeah, well, talk to the listeners about your book, you know, tell us uh what inspired you to write it, what we can expect when we read it, and where we can read it.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Good good question. So yeah, like um so so Leroy and I were together for two years before he passed away, and uh he we we were able to get him into long-term housing, which was really great. And he with this journey was really amazing because by sharing our story, our journey on social media, uh, we quickly grew a community of people from all over Canada and the US and and some in the UK, of people who were really invested in his journey because they really connected with his story and they could relate. You know, I got messages from people saying, Yeah, I was homeless, or my uncle was homeless, or I had addiction issues, you know, and and people could really relate to what he went through and even his need to be seen and understood for who he was because we all need that at the end of the day. And so I I always knew that I wanted to tell his story. And um, and then when he passed away, like I really felt compelled to to share this wild story because by the time he passed away, we had he had inspired people like all over the place and and really profoundly too. And um uh I did a TED talk a couple of years ago and and and I asked him, you know, I said, could I could I do a TED talk? And and he said, Well, what's a TED Talk? And I said, Well, it's they have these conferences all over the world, and people just gather and tell these inspirational stories, just inspire people all over. And he said, Well, well, would my story be inspiring? And I said, Oh, heck yeah. And he said, Well, would your son listen to it? And I said, Yeah. And I said, he said, do the TED talk. So after he passed away, I I knew that I had to share his story, but what I didn't realize is that I needed to tell, tell it properly. And by doing that, I had to tell my story too. And and uh part of his story is talking about how he had mental health issues. Like that's definitely part of the issue. And um uh I realized while I was writing it that I couldn't in good conscience talk about his mental health issues if I didn't tell my own too, because you know, like I mentioned, like we've all had mental health issues at some point, you know. Uh we don't, you know, we've all experienced trauma to some degree. And so I couldn't share his journey without sharing mine too. And then as I was plotting out the story, I realized that the the trauma that I had experienced as a as a child, I had experienced some pretty heavy-duty um bullying as a as a student in school. What that did to me is it it it really affected the way I saw the world and how I treated people. And as I as I dealt with my childhood bullying, I was able to get to a place where I was able to love and accept myself for who I was. But then without really planning it, I spent the rest of my life giving that kind of gift to other people who needed it, that sense of validation. Like, you are valuable, you're amazing for who you are. Like you don't have to change to fit in, like you are you are amazing right now. And so by me dealing with my own mental health stuff, my journey, I was able to see that he needed somebody to, you know, kind of be in his corner to fight the fight with him and and remind him that he was a good person. And so the book is primarily it's it's a kind of a braid between. My journey and his journey, and then how they come together and and how we were able to teach each other some really big life lessons, like you know, us having a sense of gratitude for for whatever you have in life, no matter how how tough life is, and you know, celebrating people for who they are and and um you know just just connecting with that. So yeah, it's it's it's been a good journey. I've had a lot of people reach out to me about the bullying, actually. Like I didn't want to put it in there, but a lot of people reached out that they too had been victims of childhood bullying, and so that's really struck a chord with a lot of people. So so yeah, the book is called Higher Power Betty and the homeless person, homeless man who changed my life, and um it's on Amazon worldwide. So yeah, it's a cool story.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Well, talk about um why do you feel that uh your story resonates with uh everyone, regardless of their background?

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Yeah, that's a really good question, and it's funny, it I it's really resonating with people in a way that I didn't really expect to tell you the truth because I, you know, I got so fixated on the Leroy stuff, but I think it boils down to the fact that we all at some point have had tough stuff in our life. You know, we've all experienced trauma to some degree, we all maybe have had mental health issues. Um and at the end of the day, we all want to be seen and valued, and we all we are all connected through that that's that that need to be valued and and human connection. And um, I think it's really struck a big chord with people. Like when I wrote the book, uh, it was a scary thing, I'll tell you. Like, I mean, it's hard. Like when I when I started writing, I had never told anybody that I was bullied so badly. And and uh for our listeners, like I I got was bullied so badly that I got to the point where I was considering taking my life, and I had never told anybody that. And you know, there's this fear that you're not going to be bullied or that people are gonna tell tell you that you're full of it. And and for you know, quick disclaimer for anybody who is listening to this: um, if you are being bullied or if you're going through something and you know you're having some some thoughts as to whether or not you should be here, I can tell you right now, you need to be here. Uh, you have a purpose in this life, and who you are is good and valued, and and you need to stick around and and uh because the world needs you. The the world absolutely needs you. So people I think are uh resonating with the fact that I was able to be so honest and vulnerable uh because it's a hard thing to do. Um so I think I was able to give people something that to think about that maybe they hadn't expressed or felt themselves. I don't know if that makes sense, but uh it's a really honest book, and I think it's that struck a chord with people.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Well, tell us about any other upcoming projects that you're working on that listeners need to be aware of.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Yeah, that's exciting. So my goal eventually is to become a motivational speaker. So if and we have anybody out there who who needs a speaker, I am I am uh working towards that. I'd like to, you know, speak to you know corporations or mental health agencies, edu, you know, educators, that kind of thing. And so, so yeah, uh my goal is to to speak and to develop you know workshops and and learning that kind of thing to keep spreading the message because I think it's important an important message that we all need to hear. And yeah, I've got another book in the works, uh a fiction book that is is kind of loosely based on my my mom's uh childhood. We talk about that a little bit in in Higher Power Betty. And yeah, we just got to keep spreading the message. We need to um we need to build that sense of human connection and empathy with people so so that we can make the world a little bit better place. And I think that we can do it. I think every person has the potential to make the world a better place just by doing one small act of kindness every day.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Well, though that's your contact info so people can keep up with everything that you're up to.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

I appreciate that. Thank you. So you can find me at jodyzarn.com. So it's j-o-d-y-z-ar-n dot com, and my book is on Amazon worldwide. So yeah, reach out if this uh podcast has resonated with you. I'd love to hear hear from you.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Absolutely. We'll close us out with some final thoughts, maybe if that was something I forgot to talk about that you would like to touch on, any final thoughts you have for the listeners.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

Yeah, I, you know, that's we've covered a lot of ground, that's for sure. But yeah, I think, you know, you are a good person. Like if you're listening and you're having a tough time, you know, A, you will get through it. You are not alone. There are there are people out there who care about you, and um uh you don't have to change to fit into this crazy world, you know. Uh, we need every shape size, we need every characteristic, we need all the good stuff, and you are not defined by your mistakes or your past. You're not defined by anything but the magic inside your belly.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

All right, ladies and gentlemen, jodiezoan.com is the place to go to keep up with everything that Jody's up to. And uh when she hits the stage near you to be a speaker, uh to tell her to relay her message, please be sure that you attend. Follow rate review, share this episode to as many people as possible. Also, to keep up with all things living the dream, please visit www.curveball337.com. Share the website and the show to everybody you know. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. And Jody, thank you for all that you're doing, and thank you for joining me.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Yeah, thanks for having me. This was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

For more information on the Living the Dream with Curveball Podcast, visit www.curveball337.com. Until next time, keep living the dream.