Listening Deeply: Dr. Randall Alifano's Mission to Transform Connection

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Living the Dream Pumakens with Curve Bum. If you believe, you can achieve. Welcome to the Living the Dream with Curveball Podcast, a show where I interview guests that teach, motivate, and inspire. Today's guest is Dr. Randall Alifano.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Dr. Randall is the author of the book Listening in the Raw. And he grew up in a loud Italian family where listening was rare. So after a simple curiosity into other people's struggles, Dr. Randall has a lifelong calling now centered on empathy, presence, and human connection. So he believes, you know, you should not just listen to hear a person, but you should listen deeply to understand what they're trying to say and communicate because that will help make relationships and life better. So we're going to be talking to Dr. Randall about his book and everything that he's up to and gonna be up to. So Dr. Alefano, thank you for joining me.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

No, you're very welcome. Happy to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Why don't you start off by telling everybody a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Well, I just thought you did a nice job. Um, yeah, I wrote a book called Listening in the Raw because I was stunned at how dreadful we typically are at listening, especially listening for what's underneath the narrative of what the speaker's saying. So, um, like you said, I kind of spent my entire adult life wondering about why people don't listen, why we're quick to give opinions and thoughts instead of asking questions and following our curiosity to really get to know one another. So, again, like you said, it's been my passion uh for many, many years. Um, and I'm happy to speak with people and turn them on to the idea of what gets in the way of your listening and what are the joys that result from listening.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Well, growing up in a loud Italian family, when did you first understand that listening was way more important than just simply waiting to speak?

SPEAKER_01 2:28

That's a great question. Um, I learned because sitting around a big table with a lot of New York Italians, I was even as a young at a young age, I was aware of how everybody was talking at the same time, interrupting each other. And what became very apparent to me was they were all desperate to be heard. And so instead of taking turns and really listening, everybody spoke over everybody else, and nobody felt really heard. And my first thought about that, even as I think a 10-year-old, I felt judgmental of them, like, what the heck, guys? Nobody's listening. Um, and then a little later on, I realized, oh, I was doing something similar to what they were doing. Instead of really listening to why they weren't listening, I was copying an easy attitude of just judging them for it. So when I started to have empathy for them, that they were absolutely getting in their own way of getting their needs met. Um, I started feeling more of the um uh the bilateral, I mean, if that's the right word, bilateral approach to really listening. Of um, I can't it can't be one way forever, it has to be mutual. Um, but I really felt the empathy for all of us who are desperately longing to be heard, which is all of us, um, and how we're not, and how we all collude with that. Like I like to say, um, there was a debate club, but no listening club in high school.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

That's right. And speaking of listening, you describe listening as your superpower. So when did you first realize that your presence could truly have an impact on someone else?

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Well, I have to correct that. That wasn't me, that was my niece, and we thought it was so cute. We kept it in. Um, I learned even back then when I was a little kid, but especially in high school, it became apparent because I became devoted to listening, and my friends and associates in high school um knew it, they could feel it. So people started coming over to my house to tell me about whatever issue they were dealing with, to the point where I um redirect redecorated my bedroom to look more like a living room. So people would come over and we would chat and I would listen, and then they would go back to high school and say, Hey, if you have any problem, go talk to Randall. So it's kind of how I started, and right away I knew I wanted to be a therapist of some kind.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Or tell us about your book, uh listening in a row, you know, and also uh talk about quieting, you know, your your inner chatter.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Uh good. Yeah. Um the book is kind of separated into two parts what gets in the way of listening and what opens up inside of us when we really listen. Um, and how to be quiet is a really good question because it is of the body. We're so used to asking a question and then being in our head while we listen. And what I advocate, especially for uh counselors, therapists, and parents, is instead of sharing your brilliance and your insight or even your good intention, keep on asking questions until you have a felt experience in your body about what the person is trying to communicate. And that means you have to be quiet in your body and you have to be anchored in your body. If you're just in your head, um, listening becomes quite restricted.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Well, many people confuse listening with fixing. So what can we do to resist the urge to immediately want to solve someone's problem?

SPEAKER_01 6:24

That's another good question. I think that's a real tricky part again for therapists and parents. We're kind of wired towards, and this is a good intention. We're wired towards helping or fixing. And even with therapists, when I consult with them, I'll say, as best as you can, drop all your good intentions about fixing or quote, healing uh other, and keep your focus on what's going on under the surface. What is it I don't understand yet? Um, and keep that in your mind and keep on following your curiosity until, like I said, you have a felt experience for what's underneath, in which case your whole body responds. It's oh, oh, is this what it's like? And that's where the connection is. And I can guarantee you, when we don't do that, whether it's with our partners or whatever, the person knows. We we're savvy enough to know when the person's not really listening, but we so expect not to be listened to, we don't say anything. But we tend to, especially therapists, uh uh I'm sorry, people in therapy, they'll step back a centimeter because they know what is being listened to and what is not being listened to.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Well, you write a lot about sitting in the unknown. So talk about what that looks like in conversation, especially when someone we love is hurting.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

That's great. Yeah, it's directly connected to the uh question you just asked, because people tend to have a hard time sitting in the unknown. Um, and if you're really listening in the raw, the unknown is your best friend. Because it's the um it's the womb of curiosity. So if you could be comfortable in the unknown, even even in a social conversation where the presumption is I don't know who this person is all the way down, but I can sit comfortably in curiosity and ask questions until I do have a sense of who they are. Um, but if we're a little nervous in the unknown, if we feel uncomfortable in it, we will truncate real connection with the other and fill in the void with whatever thoughts, opinions, helpful advice, or whatever that we have to offer.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Talk about how anxiety and emotional filters interfere with us truly hearing another person.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Yeah, well, a f filters um I don't know, they're like they're rampant in us. We have so many filters, so many protection mechanisms, so many prejudices that it's hard to keep track of them. So, yes, to me, the the the again, what really gets in our way are all our filters that haven't been really examined yet. And anxiety would be a good one. If if I get anxious, um typically what one would do is try to get rid of the anxiety. It's uncomfortable, so we try to step out of it, as opposed to, oh, I'm getting a sign. Let me listen to this curiosity, let me ask questions about myself to see what the anxiety is pointing me toward. And it's usually, you know, a sign for a trailhead of, oh, I'm gonna head into this, the woods that the anxiety is telling me I need to travel in. Um and the great mistake is that we try to move away from what's uncomfortable, what's unknown, instead of moving toward it. And what's sad about that is when you really listen to someone, even if you have a little anxiety about I don't know what's going on, or I don't really understand what they're saying, if we don't react to that anxiety by trying to fix it or whatever, but we deepen into, oh, I don't know what's going on. This is fascinating, and ask more questions. Again, like I said earlier, the contact can be incredibly and mutually informative and expansive and joyful. It's where real intimacy is created.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

What is one conversation in your life, whether as a father, friend, counselor, or son, that truly changed your understanding of empathy?

SPEAKER_01 10:57

I have about 6,000 stories, but for whatever reason, the story about my mom comes up. Um she, I don't know, I was maybe 10 years old, and she said, Hey Rand, go in, can you go into the family room and get my cigarettes? And I said, Sure, mom. So I went into the family room and they weren't there, and I came back out. Mom, they're not there. She goes, Yeah, honey, they're right on the arm of the sofa. And I went in, I looked at the arm of the sofa, and there were no cigarettes. And I came out with an attitude, I said, Mom, they're not in there. And as soon as I said it with that tone, I thought, uh-oh, that was a mistake. And she she looked at me and she she must have seen in my eyes that something was going on with me. And that's why I spoke to her in this kind of nasty, spoiled kid tone. So she said, Come into the family room with me, hon. So we walked into the family room, and sure enough, right on the arm of the sofa, there were cigarettes. And I looked at her like, oh my gosh, I'm in trouble now. And she looked at me again with these compassionate eyes and said, You know, Ren, sometimes when we look so hard for something, we can't see it when it's right in front of us. And I remember the thought of, oh my gosh, she has every right to be angry at me. And instead, she saw how I felt and made it an empathic contact, uh a sweet contact where she's got me. It was a beautiful, beautiful moment for me.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Well, what do you think people are most hungry for emotionally right now that they're not getting?

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Just that to be heard. To be heard underneath their narrative.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

That was the sample answer.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Yeah, I think I think it's that basic. It's something I hear oftentimes in my practice where people say, I've never sat with anybody who was genuinely interested in what's going on deep inside of me. You ask so many questions. Um and that to me, that's a beautiful compliment, but it's also a statement of how people generally don't feel like other is interested in really listening to them. And that's really sad for me.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Well, if listeners could could begin practicing one simple habit to become better listeners today, what what would you recommend that be?

SPEAKER_01 13:26

That's another good question with a thousand answers. I think I might go back to what you said earlier about finding the quiet in you. And in that quiet, start to deconstruct all the filters that get in my way of being present, of being open, and therefore being able to listen, to really courageously face all these filters and protections we carry around with us ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Tell us about any upcoming projects that you're working on that listeners need to be aware of.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Oh, one book is enough for me. I'm happy with my private practice and working with people on that intimate level.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Gotcha. What throw out your contact uh information so people can keep up with everything that you're up to.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

What I'm sorry, what is my contact information? Is that what you said?

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Yeah, throw out your contact info so people can keep up with everything that you're up to.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Um just go to my website, randallalifanophd.com, and it's all right there.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

All right. Well, close us out with some final thoughts. Maybe if that was something I forgot to talk about that you would like to touch on, any final thoughts you have for the listeners.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Um, sure. Um at you know, the second half of the book, like I said, is about the benefits of listening. And I dive into what curiosity is and how it parallels with what I call innocence, which and what I mean by that is maybe our true self or our self before we were taught by the world to shut down aspects of self because it was dangerous. Um, because what I find when I really listen to someone is I find their innocence, I find who they are underneath all those protections and filters. Um and then they're no longer a client or something, they're they're a brother or a sister. They they feel like we're of the same family, and so there is no distance any longer. We're in this book together, everybody trying to come back to our innocence so we could live our life exactly the way it should be lived for us individually. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Good.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Ladies and gentlemen, Randall Alifondo PhD.com is the place to keep up with everything that Dr. Randall's up to. Please go check out that book and follow rate review, share this episode to as many people as possible. Because like Dr. Randall said, everybody just wants to be heard. So take the time to not just hear a person but truly listen to what they're going through because it might make a big difference. Also take the time, if you haven't done so, to visit www.curveball337.com. Share the website and the show to everybody you know. If you haven't done so, leave us a review, a comment. You can even leave us some voicemail that we might even play on the show. And if you sign up for that newsletter if you haven't done so. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. And Dr. Alefano, thank you for all that you do, and thank you for joining me.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Pleasure, Curtis. Thank you. Appreciate the invitation.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

For more information on the Living the Dream with Curveballer Podcast, visit www.curveballer337.com. Until next time, keep living the dream.