Unmasking the Shadows: Heidi Chance on Combatting Sex Trafficking and Empowering Communities

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Living the Dream Podcast with Curveball. If you believe, you can achieve. Welcome to the Living the Dream with Curveball podcast. A show where I interview guests that teach, motivate, and inspire. Today we're going to be talking to a nationally recognized sex trafficking expert, and we're going to be talking about protecting vulnerable communities. Heidi Chan is nationally recognized for sex traffic investigations, undercover operations, and online safety. She has more than twenty-eight years in law enforcement. She serves as a special agent for the Arizona Attorney General's Office. She has dedicated her career in protecting vulnerable communities and educating the public of trafficking and digital digital exploitation. She has been treated in the PDF for a land like Mary Sex Trafficking in America. She is an author of the book in Doctor Dam. And she continues to empower parents, education, experts, and law enforcement to her organization a chance for awareness. So hi, thank you for joining me. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Why don't you start off uh by telling everybody a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Yeah, a little bit more about me is um I'm retired from Phoenix Police Department. I spent 25 years there. Um hopefully I look like I started when I was 12. Um I am um retired from the police department in 2021. And um uh prior to retiring, I spent 14 years working as a female undercover investigating sex trafficking and then working as a you know a lived subject matter expert, being solicited by thousands of sex buyers and recruited and groomed by traffickers. Um, and then when I retired, I went over to another position for a little while that wasn't involved in human trafficking anymore. And I had a passion for it still, obviously, and so I created my side business, a chanceforawareness.com, where I am continuing to educate law enforcement and then community uh awareness education is also very important to me because I believe that an informed public equals an informed jury, which equals accountability for traffickers, and that's how that works. So um getting into any room I can, any podcast I can, anywhere I can to inform the public who may sit on a jury someday to know what sex trafficking is and what victims experience is the is the goal that I have. So thank you so much. I'm very happy to be here.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Talk about what originally inspired you to get into law enforcement and then transition into human trafficking investigations.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Yeah, so I am actually third generation law enforcement in my family. Um my grandfather was NYPD, my father was Phoenix Police Department, and then he went on to Maricopa County Sheriff's Office before he retired. Um and then I had a unique opportunity when I was 18 years old to join a program that Phoenix Police Department had. Um basically they had the idea of early recruitment, and so they employed uh a few of us in the initial um time period of this program where we were conducting um, you know, accident investigations, dusting for fingerprints, nothing too major or anything like that, but it was kind of you know guiding us along that path if we were to still go on to be sworn police officers. And so I was on that path. And in fact, I went in the police academy and turned 21 three weeks before I graduated in January of uh 1998. Um I'm sorry, January of 1999. So I was in the academy in 1998. So um then I went on into patrol where I was in a fully marked patrol car wearing a uniform, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed young person in West Phoenix, if you've ever been to Arizona. It's um an area that's pretty residential, but I always say that the people who commit home invasions and crimes, this is this is where they live. They they've returned to that area. Um and uh along the way, I decided to start a family. And in doing that, um, most police agencies, at least back then, because I I was in the time period where I was the only female officer for an entire shift for the whole precinct. Um, and I feel like they don't really have like a consistent know what to do with a female officer who's pregnant. So um I ended up going behind the desk, and then an opportunity came about for a school resource officer position. And so I transferred and tested for that position and got it. And when I returned from uh pregnancy leave, I went to that position. And then I blinked, and six years went by, and I um really liked that position. I think it gave me a very unique rapport-building skill that I didn't have before with youth. And ironically, um, there was an incident involving a young girl that I ran into at the police station. Um, there's an area of the precinct where there's a juvenile holding room that kind of keeps juveniles away from adults that we might be uh detaining or have in custody for some reason. And there's a little window in the door, and I remember going into the station to return the car keys because they don't get to take the police car home, unfortunately. And I walked past this little doorway and I saw her sitting in there, and I recognized her as a former student of mine when she was at the middle school. On this day, she was still a juvenile. She was 16, almost 17. And basically I popped my head in there and I asked her, Well, what's going on with you? Why are you here? And she had told me she was under arrest for prostitution. And this was back in 2007, 2006, somewhere in there. Um, and I had already been a police officer for six, seven years, and I knew prostitution was a crime, but I didn't know that youth or children got involved in that or would it be exploited in that way. And so that really sparked my interest. And then also uniquely at that time, uh, the vice unit back then. Uh now today it's called the Human Exploitation and Trafficking Unit. But the VICE unit back then was asking female under female officers to come work with them to pose as decoys in operations where they would have uh us pose as prostituted people to uh target sex buyers. And so I was asked to do that, and I was definitely interested in undercover work. I just didn't know where I wanted to go with my career, and I ended up falling in love with that and all that could be possible, especially with the knowledge of the fact that I could probably do something about uh children being exploited in that way. And so I went to that unit in 2008 for the first time, and then ultimately for a permanent position in 2009, and then I stayed there all the way until I retired in October of 21. So most of my career was that uh human trafficking unit every day.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Well, after nearly spending nearly three decades in the field, talk about the some of the biggest misconceptions that people still have about sex trafficking.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Yeah, so um a lot of times people are following what social media says. Um, for example, I don't know if you're familiar with any of the TikToks or Instagram stories or reels about people getting on and seeing walking out to their car and claiming to have had a zip tie on their car door handle, and then get into this, you know, situation where they claim that that was them being set up to be human trafficked, um, or a sticker on their window, or people go so far as to say a dollar bill was left by their car door, possibly with a white powdery substance on it. Um, there's all kinds of myths about it being human trafficking. In fact, I think a lot of people are calling everything human trafficking. In those instances, you're probably being set up for maybe a kidnapping, an armed robbery. I don't know. Um, or maybe you just parked in the place you're not supposed to park and someone was going to come back with a ticket or tow the car. I don't know. But um, the the definition of human trafficking actually covers two crimes: forced labor. We don't talk a lot about labor trafficking, but that's also under the words human trafficking, and then sex trafficking. And for both of those crimes, we have to prove the elements of force broader coercion. Um, and for sex trafficking specifically, it is the commercial sexual exploitation of a person, which means we're we're kind of we're talking more about prostitution than anything else. And that is defined as any sex act in exchange for an item of value. It doesn't have to be money, it could be drugs, it could be buy my hotel room, but it is that exchange, that commercial exchange for a sex act in exchange for an item of value. Nowhere in that definition or anything I just said has anything to do with a zip tie on a car door. But people are definitely calling everything human trafficking. I think that's one big myth and misconception that's making it even harder for people to even recognize what it is and making it confusing. In addition to that, a lot of people think that this is happening somewhere else, in another country, far away, in the poor part of town. And I can tell you, my experience has been that this is happening under our noses in every community that you would be in. Um it is whether it's a person buying a person, which is called a sex buyer, formally uh referred to as John, or it's a person exploiting a person, whether it's online, which could be anywhere if they're advertised online, or in hotels or in known areas for street prostitution. It is happening in our community. Um, and it and it's it's something that is existing because traffickers are banking on the fact that people can't recognize it and won't know what to do and won't know where to call. And so it's thriving, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Well, you've worked extensively undercover. So talk about some of some of the experiences, the eye-open experiences that have forever changed your perspective.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Yeah, I mean, as a female undercover, especially working the street prostitution problem in Phoenix, because Phoenix, if you don't know this, is the fifth largest city in the United States. Um, it's uh kind of underwhelming our downtown area, isn't that amazing, with a bunch of high-rise buildings or anything? But the actual size of the valley area and how many people live here, it's a big place. Um, Phoenix unfortunately has several known areas for street prostitution. Um, the term for that is called the blade or the track. And um, while working as a female undercover on the blade in some of those known areas, I have literally seen thousands of men over the 16 years that have been doing this now, take their wedding ring off, put it in a cup holder, and then solicit sex from me, believing me to be a prostituted person. So the purchasing of another person is exploded. And I don't know what's contributing to that, even with all of the you know, active awareness that's going on out there. The only thing that I can think of is that it is other platforms like OF, OnlyFans, or Patreon with these video service platforms where you can in the palm of your hand in a phone have pornography. But I think that that isn't satisfying people enough, and they're acting out on it in real life. And unfortunately, there are, in addition to the known areas for prostitution, prostitution advertisements online where you can order a person to either come to you or you can go to their location, and it's as easy as knowing where to go and have a conversation and set up the date. So um I think that that is definitely causing um this ease of this problem to even further expand.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Well, how has technology and social media changed the way that predators target young people?

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Yeah. So it's um it's one of those things where a trafficker isn't gonna miss an opportunity in person if they happen to be out and about somewhere where they used to, you know, go to the mall or the food court or a concert or a bus stop. You know, they're still gonna do those things, but the opportunity to use the internet and social media and gaming platforms really allows for a trafficker to sit on their butt all day long and just cast out a fishing line in the form of messages, hundreds of them a day, trying to engage with new potential victims. And I know all of this because as a female undercover, I have worked several operations posing on all of my different social media platforms as a victim, a potential victim. And I've been recruited and groomed by traffickers. And in the conversation that we have had during the short period of time we may have spoken, I've done a warrant for our conversation on whatever platform it was that we were talking on. And I'm allowed to see everyone that this person's also talking to during that period of time. And the same message that's been sent to me has been copied and pasted hundreds of times to all these other people. And the thing that's interesting about that is it's not just local to Arizona. I have extradited a trafficker all the way from Orlando, Florida, to Arizona to see a judge for a class by a felony for trying to recruit and groom me. And he's never seen my face. So um it is something where law enforcement has to be there online as well to uh engage with these individuals and um and further deter this behavior because we need to show how bad it is and show accountability if you're going to be doing that. Law enforcement's also going to be uh online and engaging with you as well, and you will be held accountable.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

What are some warning signs that parents and care givers should take note of when it comes to online grooming or exploitation?

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Yeah, so um in 2007-2008, when I started working this crime, the national average age of entry into sex trafficking at that time was 15 years old. Today, the national average age of a young person getting involved in this is 13 years old. And recent recently we um rescued an 11-year-old out on the blade. So this problem is getting worse, not better. And so that's why I um really wanted to reach parents because I know that law enforcement's overwhelmed without the undercover units. Um, we are completely just reactionary. We are just responding to the thing that's already happened. And I would much rather not have the thing already happen. So that's why I wrote my book, Talk to Them, uh, which I also just had it translated fully into Spanish because I feel like it's a vulnerability for a parent who doesn't speak English to not know all of what's going on. Um, they have limited resources, and I feel that it's really um a disadvantage for them to not know what's going on, and an advantage for a trafficker. If I was a pimp, I would totally target a kid whose parents don't speak English because they're not going to know what I'm my my plans are or what I'm doing. So um, as far as the warning signs, I mean, I talk a lot about this in the book, um, not only just about sex trafficking, but also sex tortion, which is another big problem out there with individuals that want to hurt our kids in the form of um uh extort them through having them take an inappropriate image of themselves and then share it with that person who they think is their friend, possibly even another peer, and then they flip on them and say, You owe me X amount of money, or I'm going to blast this. You already told me where you go to school, you told me where you live, all of the conversation you thought you were having with another 12-year-old is actually an adult or a person from a group called uh a group like 764, if you've heard of that group, where they are instead of telling their parents about the situation, and they don't have $5,000 or however much money that this person's trying to exploit them for, and they're unaliving themselves over this. So sextortion is huge. Um, but as far as the warning signs, obviously, parents really need to be involved with whatever device they give their kids access to. They need to have the login, they need to have the password, they need to, if if I'm gonna let you use the device I'm paying for or use my internet to get on the device that you have, I'm gonna have rules. And we have to have rules and we have to double check and make sure that they're abiding by those rules. Um, some of the rules obviously could be that they can't have the device in their bedroom, they can't have it at night. It has to be charged out in the main area or uh in even the parents' bedroom. Um, if they're you know wearing those headsets on a gaming platform, that's dangerous because you don't know if there's someone talking to them on that headset. You may be walking by, the computer might be in the kitchen where you're at, but if they've got the headset on, you're not gonna know what's going on. Um, so you know, even to the extent of not allowing a headset, whatever's going on on the computer is gonna be in full view of any parent. Um, and and further, that if you do uh talk to them, and that's the whole point of the book, is having conversations with kids about not if but when these things happen, when a person asks you personal information, like where you go to school, or directly where you live, or what your parents do for a living, or what kind of cars they drive, where your siblings go to school. This is all personal information that no one should be asking you, especially not someone you know in real life. Secondly, if it's a person that's trying to trip you to another platform, meaning move you from the platform we met on, the game we met on, to a live phone call, to Snapchat, to whatever platform that they, the bad guy, and we're assuming this is a concerning situation, is feeling it's safe to be on Snapchat and converse on Snapchat because they think that disappears. Those conversations disappear, and they have some element of control in case they get too inappropriate and this is not actually a kid that they can um delete the evidence, basically, and not get caught. That's what they think. But law enforcement can still get stuff that's deleted on Snapchat, by the way. Then there's also um, you know, the element of let's keep this a secret or delete the conversation or log out. I don't want your mom to know what's going on. Let's keep this between us. Um being inappropriate with compliments. I mean, as an undercover chatting with potential predators, I've been told I'm too sexy to be nine years old. What does that even mean when I'm posing as a little kid? Um, you know, there's so many things that are red flags that parents really need to learn about. And um, you know, it's it's a job in itself keeping up on all this uh social media and all these apps and the new things that kids are doing. And I understand all of that, but it is truly what helps prevent uh something bad from happening.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Well, I know you helped lead an investigation that led to a 493 and a half year sentence for a tracker. That's historic. So what did that case mean to you professionally and personally?

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Yeah, so that case um happened uh with uh uh it was familial trafficking, and the victim, the main victim who reported it initially, was 16. But um, she had been in this situation for several years with her uncle. So that's what made it familial. It was someone that she knows, it was a family member that trafficked her. And then he also trafficked uh six other. People, including an adult female who was a Department of Corrections officer originally, lost her job, fell into some hard times, became employed at the strip club, and then entered the life of prostitution in her 40s when she met him, and unfortunately brought her 17-year-old stepdaughter. I'm sorry, her 17-year-old daughter into this situation. So that was the second juvenile victim. Same case, one of the other adult females, she was 19 years old, and she um was up at Northern Arizona University. Her mom's a nurse. She's from Scottsdale. She's from a nice part of town. So this is in a kid from or a young adult from a poor part of town, very well-off family. Her vulnerability may have been that she was had low self-esteem, happened to be on Craigslist. She was conversing with a guy that offered to take modeling pictures of her. And basically he introduced her to the pimp, and then she entered the life of prostitution, working out of the brothel he had going on out of his house. She unfortunately got very addicted to heroin and committed some other crimes associated with her drug habit and found herself sentenced to 10 years in prison in the end of all of this. So my point with telling you all that is that this case really shows, especially when I talk about it to the public, because I talk about it all the time, it really shows people's misconception about what a victim looks like, what a victim's background and economic status and all the things. I mean, this one case, you got the lady in her 40s just entering this in. You got the girl from Scottsdale, you've got a vulnerable child, you've got um, you know, a couple of other the adult females that were down on their luck, had some drug habits. It's a whole mix. Um, and it really shows that this isn't about a particular part of town or a particular demographic of a person. What this is actually about is the vulnerability of each of those victims and the trafficker able to exploit that vulnerability. Um, as far as the trial, this went to trial in 2015. It lasted seven months. Um, I testified 11 times. The main victim, who was in her 20s when the jury saw her when we finally went to trial, testified for 18 days. And um I told her that she's pretty much the bravest person I had ever met at that time because she literally faced her uncle for 18 days and went through cross-examination and re-examination and all of the things uh re-telling the story of every traumatic thing that happened to her. So very powerful story and experience. And uh, you know, I'm I'm proud to say that we got, I believe, her justice and the other victims' justice because he was found guilty on 101 out of the 105 counts, and he was sentenced to 493.5 years in prison.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

So well, congratulations. Talk to the listeners about your book, uh, talk to them, and also about that PBS uh documentary that you were part of, and tell us where we can get that book and uh check out that documentary.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

Yeah, so um in May of 2019, the documentary came out, and if you haven't seen it, I'm giving you homework to go check out uh the documentary. It's called Sex Trafficking in America. Um, I I I suggest people see that movie because that really backs up what I'm saying when I talk about the myths that people think that this is happening somewhere else. It is literally happening uh in communities, and the documentary does a great job showing not only what domestically uh the police departments are doing using female undercovers, but also it follows this case of a juvenile who met the trafficker on a social media platform who convinced her to run away from home, and then she ends up kind of moving between two other individuals. So all three of them participated in trafficking her, and that's why the movie took so long to finish because they wanted to get the conclusion of their outcome and her getting justice of the three of them getting held responsible for what happened. So um, anyway, you can watch it on Frontline PBS or on YouTube, and it's sex trafficking in America. And then my book, I released it in March of 24, May of 24. Um, and um I did it obviously, like I said, to give parents a strategy to have these difficult conversations at an age earlier than you would think. Like I said, the national age is lowering. We're reaching and rescuing younger uh kids out there. So this problem is getting worse, not better. And we need parents to have this conversation with their kids. I'm talking at about six or seven years old, and that's not an easy thing to do. And so that's what the book is is a strategy on how to conduct this conversation, modeled after how I, as a forensic interviewer, would conduct an interview with a victim who's sitting across the table from me that I've never met before until that moment. And I'm trying to get them to tell me their darkest secrets and the trauma and all the things that have happened to them. And, you know, I have a little bit of skill in doing that. Otherwise, I wouldn't have successful investigations. So um I tried to impart that strategy and skill into the book.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Well, what can everyday, what practical steps can everyday people take to prevent trafficking and better protect their community?

SPEAKER_00 28:01

Yeah, so I feel, you know, the whole airport slogan, you see something, you say something. Um there's been an interview, a couple of interviews I've had with victims where they sat across the table from me and told me all about a violent incident that happened to them in broad daylight in front of people at the bus stop, in front of cars driving by, and no one called the police. Some people broke out their phone to film a TikTok, which is a whole other topic and an inappropriate thing, and we socially uh need to address that problem, but no one called to help. And um, you know, it's it's one of those things that's really disheartening because those are all witnesses. Someone could have gotten this victim help, you know, months, weeks, years before um they finally got to the point where they were able to get rescued. And um that shouldn't be happening. So if someone is observing potentially um, you know, a trafficking situation, I know that people don't want to bother 911, but if it's a crime happening in progress right now, right now, that would be a call to 911. Um, there are some states that have a hotline. So we we have the national hotline. If you've heard of the national hotline, you've probably traveled. Uh they have the posters in the airport, bathrooms, and things. Um, the national hotline is under new management right now, and it's it's it's working on the details of being as effective as it was before. But right now, um, I would suggest if your state has a state hotline, like Arizona has a state hotline, to just contact that hotline number. And also the national hotline is all the way in DC. We're all the way in Arizona over here. It takes a minute, which could be three or four days, before you make this call, and that information gets to the right state, to the right city, to the right police uh agency, to the right detective. And that's a delay that really these victims don't have the um the um you know opportunity to get away with with this delay is is hurting them, not helping. So um that's my suggestion with uh if anyone wants to report trafficking, even if you suspect it, um you describe the situation, be a good witness, describe who you're seeing. Um tattoos are a big indicator. Um, make sure you provide your information so we can call you. We don't have to show up at your house, but we need to call you possibly or email you and ask you other questions that you may not have remembered or recalled at the moment that you called 911, but we have those questions now. So um, if you can get a license plate, last known direction of travel, describe people that's being a good witness, and and we really, really would work on uh investigating that right away.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

After everything that you've seen, what gives you the uh hope of wanting to continue on in your career and what you're doing?

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Yeah, great question. Um, I think that I get a lot of joy in um the successes I've had, and I just want to share that, especially with law enforcement, um, and inspire them to do these investigations. They are not easy. These are really hard investigations. Most of these investigations involve this person's word versus that person's word, and we have to work it through cooperative evidence. Um, also, you have victims that are not saying, hey, I'm over here, come talk to me. Um, so it's really it's it's very difficult. I mean, I joke that homicide detectives have it easy. They're victims dead right there, they're not going anywhere, they're not returning back to prostitution, they're not getting involved in drugs, they're not committing other crimes, they're not disappearing. They have it easy. We have it definitely a lot harder, um, but it's worth it in the end to hold a trafficker accountable. So I think that's what keeps me going.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Tell us about any upcoming projects that you're working on that listeners need to be aware of.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Yeah, so I am constantly applying to uh conferences, um, not only law enforcement conferences, but any business that um is hosting a conference. I mean, I am an informational speaker. I'm not gonna show up at the at the conference and talk about um leadership or anything like that. I'm gonna talk about the truth about what's going on, what we need to be concerned with, um, information about this specific topic. But I think it's pretty valuable, and I think people would walk away with um, you know, a lot of action steps that they can take to prevent this happening to someone they know or someone in their family. But um, in addition to that, obviously I'm working on law enforcement training across the country, um, thinking about another book. Uh, I did just write the foreword for a friend's book. Her name is Sandy Storm, and she wrote The Truth About Trafficking. And um, I've gotten to know her, and she's a survivor and has an incredible story that is really worth listening to and reading her book. So that one I wanted to make sure I mentioned. Um, and you know, uh this is my passion, so I don't find it disappearing anytime soon. And I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be doing this for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

Though I actually contact info so people can keep up with everything that you're up to.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

Yeah, so I am on social media, almost every platform. I've got a TikTok, Pinterest, uh, Instagram, Facebook group, all with a chance for awareness as my name. Uh, Instagram, I think there's an underscore in between each word. Um, and then LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn under Heidi Chance. I am very active on LinkedIn, especially with um, you know, the opportunities with the speaking and training law enforcement and speaking at conferences. Um, really, uh any business, like I said, that has a conference and wants to uh generate a zero tolerance policy for someone buying sex, I think that's what we need to do is focus on uh a higher consequence for individuals who are buying people for that purpose and hold them to a higher standard. And if they're going to participate in that, even if it's a misdemeanor in someone's state, it should be a fireable offense to solicit someone for sex. So um just encouraging businesses to realize that this is um you know something that they can do to contribute to this fight is creating policies that would hold people accountable.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Right, ladies and gentlemen, so definitely go check out that that PBS documentary Sex Trafficking in America and pick up Heidi's book and you know, keep up with everything that she's up to. If you're on these social media platforms, follow her, take her advice to heart, and please follow Ray Review, share this episode to everybody you can to r raise awareness to this uh issue and also to raise awareness of the living the dream of curveball podcast. Share www.curveball337.com to everybody that you know. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. And Heidi, thank you for all that you're doing and uh all that you've done and been so brave to uh tackle this issue, and thank you for joining me.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Absolutely, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

For more information on the Living the Dream with Curveball Podcast, visit www.curveball337.com. Until next time, keep living the dream.