America’s Grandpa: Neil Taft on Healing Family Divisions and Connecting with Grandkids

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Living the Dream in the King with Curveball. If you believe, you can achieve.

SPEAKER_02 0:15

Welcome to the Living the Dream with Curveball Podcast, a show where I interview guests that teach, motivate, and inspire. Today we're going to be talking about family, connection, and one of the most important relationships in life, our grandparents to our grandkids. I am joined by author 82-year-old author Neil Taff. He just told me today is his birthday in the green room. He is the author of five books, and including the book The Bridge to our grandkids. And this 82-year-old great-great grandpa is known as America's grandpa. He went viral on TikTok, reaching more than two million people, giving practical advice about how to better connect with your grandkids. I say your because I don't have any grandkids yet, but you know, he's here to talk about healing division and making a building a bond with your grandkids if you have any. So excited to have him on. Happy birthday, Neil, and welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Thank you, Curtis. And I've got enough grandkids to go around. Do you want a couple?

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Ah, I think I'll wait. I'm pretty sure I have my share of them. Yeah, because you're a great grand great great grandpa. So America's grandpa, why don't you start off by telling everybody a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Okay. I at about 40 or 20 years ago, my son called me up and uh he lives about six hours away. And he said, Dad, would you go to a seminar with me about Internet 2.0 computer stuff? And I said, Chuck, I'm not a computer guy. He said, That's okay, we'll hang around, hang out. So when your grown son calls and asks you, hang out with him for the weekend. Well, we went to a seminar in Atlanta, Georgia, came home, and at the time this was a transition on the internet whereby if you wrote articles and keyworded them, you got attention from Google. So our very first venture out a few months after we got back, we built a website on recycling, and I started writing articles. Well, when we started, we were 1,583,000 on the Google site. Four months later, we were number one. I had written hundreds of articles, keywording them. That was a success. We went on, had another success, still working with my son. So about um four or five years later, I called up my son. I said, I want to write a blog. He said, Well, come on up, we'll have lunch. I said, Okay. So he we went to lunch, and I said, Chuck, I'm really serious about this blog. And he reached across the table and gently put his hand on my arm and said, Dad, you know I love you, but he said, a blog's like, you know, telling everybody you went to the grocery store. Three or four people in the family will read it for a while, but then even they too will wane. And I said, That's okay. I I want to write a blog. I'm I'm committed to this. He said, Well, choose a subject you're really passionate about. I said, That's easy. I'm the best grandpa I know. He said, Well, go at it. So I did. Got a little website called caringgrandparents.com, started writing articles. Four months later, I had a thousand people a month coming to that website. He said, Dad, I'm beginning to be a believer. So we went on and attracted a lot of attention through this. And so he said, uh, Dad, why don't you write a pamph uh a one-pager? That's the way you do on the internet. People enter your emails and we start our email list. I said, okay, so I wrote a one pager about my grandparenting. He said, Dad, this is pretty good. You ought to write a pamphlet. I said, Okay, I write a pamphlet. When I got finished with the pamphlet, he said, Well, you're on a roll, why don't you go for a book? So I did write my first book called No Greater Loss about Grandparents That Don't Get to See Their Grandchildren. I went on to write three more after that, and began, the the last of which was carrying grandparents, and began to understand a whole lot about grandparenting. That had been 19 years into my 20 years, and then last about a year ago, a lady from my Toastmasters Club who has a podcast, she very often has on people that are uh uh young ladies that are successful entrepreneurs, 40s, 50s or so. The lady before me that went on was a psychic. So it gives you a flavor of that show. Well, she was short of guests, so she asked me if I'd be on. At that time, this 81-year-old great-great-grandpa sitting in a wingback chair on a lady show, a little bit of a fish out of water. But halfway through the show, she asked me a question. She said, Neil, what do you think the biggest mistake grandparents make in connecting with their grandkids? My answer was, they failed to take really good care of the mother of their grandchildren. That's what Curtis just told you went to two million TikTok views, and I had 2,000 comments on that segment. That taught me about the divide within grandparents and adult children. The mothers of the grandchildren were not did not feel seen, heard, or valued.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Well, why do you feel that message resonated so deeply with uh all those people?

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Because it it's very often extended families are are really complicated. When I did my TEDx talk, I said families are life is complicated. Family life isn't a multiple of complicated, and extended family night life is exponentially complicated. And Curtis, the reason being we don't have much any say whatsoever in the people that come into our extended family, yet they're significant. So very often, this uh couple will have a son or a daughter, and they bring home this person they're madly in love with, and you may not see it that way, but they start dating and goes on and on, and then they get married, and very often that person feels that tension during this process. In other words, as a dad, very few young men were good enough for my daughter, and as a mother, no one's good enough for their son. That begins that that tension, if you will, and it gets worse with time. Resentment is cumulative. Then they go on, they have a baby, and it grandparents get all oh wonderful, fantastic, want the first picture with it, and all that kind of stuff, and they almost shove the mother aside for the baby, more resentment. Then it goes on, and then all at once words are said that the mother of the grandchildren take as criticism, where maybe the mother-in-law didn't mean it. More tension, and it becomes a gulf, if you will. Now, most families fortunately find a way through that, they can find a way to be civil to each other, etc. But the the true connection, what I call lasting meaningful connections in extended families, the bridge, if you will, is when they find commonality. And instead of the grandchildren being the victims in all this mess, they raise the grandchildren up and find out what common good they can do for the grandchildren. That's a long way of saying there's a lot of tension in families. Copra Winfrey just did a um one of her programs, TV programs, on this divide, if you will. It talked about the adult children that um alienate themselves from the their parents or the the in-laws, one of the two. And the grandkids get caught in the middle because the grandparents don't get to see the grandkids. Now, when you have grandkids, you'll begin to understand what kind of a grief and pain that causes for grandparents. How do they react? Normally, not so well.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Well, that was gonna be my next question. What should grandparents do when they feel sad about their adult children?

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Hopefully, they stop and consider the dynamics of what's going on. The unfortunately, it's not fair, and that's what I get from so many grandparents. I love those little kids and all that kind of stuff, and now you know they don't let me see them as often as I want, or whatever those that tension is, and they just they feel it's unfair. Well, yes, it is, it's very unfair, but the parents are just trying to be parents, and parenting has changed so much, Curtis. I had a a young man, a friend of mine, he's he runs a grandparents' academy, one of the most successful teaching academies in grandparenting. And I was talking to him one day, and back in 40 years ago, I was fortunate enough to attend some self-esteem seminars when I was a youth minister, attend some self-esteem seminars by Jack Canfield before he wrote Chicken Soup for the Soul. And he talked about a um, there was a study by Sanford University whereby they followed mothers of small children around, two, three-year-olds, and they followed their fathers around as well, and they clocked how often you have to say, no, be careful, don't touch that, don't go out in the street, etc. There were 14 negatives for every positive. Now that's a big number, but you kept them alive. I did it with my kids. I said that to this gentleman, and he said, Well, we don't use no in our house. That is different. How do you parent without saying no in a household? And grandparents don't understand that. Consequently, they they may say something, and it doesn't take much for that to ignite as a criticism. So time, the the way that parents are raising their children now has changed significantly. The grandparents were raised differently, their grandparents were automatic in their lives. Now the adult children feel they have a choice as to whether to invite their grandparents in or not, and it causes lots of family consternation.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

Well, what is the biggest mistake grandparents make when trying to reconnect with their kids? And what's what is the first step that they should take to rebuild their relationship?

SPEAKER_00 15:19

The first step is that they have to let go of the parenting part. Dr. Joshua Coleman is the number one uh authority, I think, in estrangement and alienation in the country right now. And he says, you cannot compel your adult children to do anything. And that's a strong statement, but it's true. What you run up against is resentment because they have they've done what they're supposed to do. They have left their mother and father, and they are cleaving to each other and forming a new family unit. That's scriptural, and that's what they're supposed to do. Well, what when they don't understand that, they very often try to compel their the and that's that triangle that sets up. Like I told you, they the the mother will not go to her son if she'll have her husband do it, and her husband will go to her son and say, Your wife is being mean to your mom. You better stop that. Now you you cause a divide in the family. Now, this is all kind of worst-case scenario, but most of these things are done in a very passive-aggressive way, and it accumulates. So the approach of the grandparents is concentrate on what you can change, only what you can change. Like the serenity prayer says, Accept that you cannot change. You cannot change another person, especially after all this water's gone under the bridge. The second thing that they can do is find a way to bond with, affirm the mother of your grandchildren, if it's an in-law or the son-in-law, whatever it is, find a way to affirm them. That's the that's the best starting point you can possibly do. And instead of why do you let the baby sleep on their back when you were growing up, you were on your stomach? Which isn't well-intentioned, but it may come across as a criticism. But now, if you look at the literature today, all the pediatricians tell the mothers of today lay your child on their back, nothing else in the crib, no covers, just a onesie to keep them warm, no stuffed animals or anything like that. So that is the the degree with which things have changed.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

So uh uh tell us what you mean by the saying you got to speak grandkid, the great the grandparents have to speak grandkid.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Well, the the grandparents feel entitled. Very often in some family dynamics with a 50% divorce rate, divorce has really thrown a monkey wrench into this. But the grandparents, very often grandma is the very first babysitter for the first two or three years because mom might go back to work. And she has done everything and taken care of that baby and watched it take its first step and everything else. And then if there's a rift in the family, or if this tension gets too great, then the the mother of the grandchild decides to limit visits. Or if the other thing that's been happening a lot is the grandparents decide to ignore the parents' requests, boundaries, and gives them sugar anyway, and lets them stay up late, and don't tell your parents we did this sort of thing, which is very detrimental because they're going to tell them anyway, then you you've created a rip there. And one of the ways that a parent will very often react is withholding visitation rights to the grandkids.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Well, what is the biggest myth about being a grandparent that you wish families would stop believing? And what do you wish grandparents would do and say it?

SPEAKER_00 20:01

The biggest myth is the grandparents think that grandparenting comes naturally. It's like falling off a log. And for all the reasons I just stated, it is not like falling off a log. And the other myth is that you have power over your adult children. There's we know what teenagers get like when they start withdrawing into themselves and they start separation, which is appropriate. Every religion and culture on the face of the earth has some sort of a maturation process. The Native Americans take their adult or their young adults out in the woods and turn them loose and make them figure their way back. And many face the the Jewish have the bar mitzvah, the Catholics have the confirmation, which includes a slap on the cheek symbolically. It's that moving away from, if you will, that maturation. Well, that that's gonna happen regardless of whether you want it to or not. So recognizing that and letting it go, and the other is that it's just gonna come natural. I said in my TEDx talk, I said, all 15 of my grandchildren are still very much in my life. That doesn't just happen. I have an ex-daughter-in-law that I get along with gloriously because I like seeing my now 21-year-old granddaughter. So there are that recognition to let the parents be parents. The one of the statements that that has to ring true to a grandparent is the grandchildren belong to the parents, not to the grandparents. They get to come in, they get to love them, they get to go back home, but the parents are responsible for all those things. And I've I've seen that misunderstood on both sides. And and the other thing, Curtis, like I said, it's not a matter of intention. Intention's not enough. You have to add education, you have to add consideration to it and empathy to intention, because we all know what intention does without some sort of thought. And uh and that's a lot of times what grandparents will do. Both the parents and the grandparents want really want what's best for the grandchild. But unless they're communicating with each other, it can be that very same thing that it causes a rift.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

Well, that goes into my next question. How can grandparents respect the parents' uh parenting decisions while sharing their wisdom and experience without damaging family relationships?

SPEAKER_00 23:17

You will never get to the point of sharing your wisdom. Unless you first do the things necessary. There's a terrible, terrible word that adult children throw out called boundaries. But when you stop to think, no good long-term successful relationship ever stays that way without boundaries. So the first thing you have to do is ask the parents, what boundaries do you have? When I go to the mountain to visit my, I have three grandchildren in one household, and I visit my son and daughter-in-law. My first question walking in the door is, what are we working on now? Are we working on screen time? Are we working on diet? Are we working on kids going to bed on time if they're going to stay here? Or whatever those things are. It's a consideration of the parents' responsibility. And every time that gets violated, that's a chalk, a check mark against this smoothness, if you will, that has to be. So if the grandparents just, number one, it's not like falling off a log. Number two, you cannot compel your children to do anything. If you start there, and again, it's not fair. I will never use that word. And that causes all the tension in the world. But it's the only way you can begin to communicate with, especially an in-law. Because that that same idea, some some children revolt against their parents ultimately, but by and large, it's an in-law, because they don't have that same kind of a uh a connection. And if you find a way to start a conversation, one of the best ways you can start with, say if you have a a daughter-in-law who's been angry, and finally you get a chance and you have smooth enough to have coffee with her or whatever, a great line is now I understand how hard what you're doing is raising a family. I I thought back, and yes, it is really hard, and I recognize you're a good mom and that you've got a lot of tension on you. And I also recognize that I may have some blind spots. So if I've got blind spots, I would like for you to share those with me, and I will promise you two things. Number one is I will not stand there and deny them independent. If you perceive it as a blind spot, I will just understand you better. And the second thing

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SPEAKER_00 26:56

is, I will abide by your boundaries, or I will talk to you about something ahead of time, out of the room, away from the children. Those two things will unload the gun faster than anything I know.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Well, what's one question a grandparent can ask a grandchild that will help build a more deeper and meaningful relationship?

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Not so much a question as a recognition. I advocate that we meet our grandchildren where they are, not necessarily where we want them to be. And if

(Cont.) America’s Grandpa: Neil Taft on Healing Family Divisions and Connecting with Grandkids

SPEAKER_00 27:41

you do that, once you recognize them where they are, you can find those interests, then you can find the appropriate questions to ask. And and Curtis, it's it's kind of silly sometimes that the ones that actually break through. My uh now grown-up grandson was about 12, 13, all the one-word answers that they typically give, no matter what. First of all, the dumbest question a grandparent can ask is, how's school? They'll give you a one-word answer just to get on to the next subject. But I was asking him about, I got a conversation going about gaming, and he liked his gaming and all, and I don't understand it. And I asked him a question, I said, Gabriel, I said, when you do gaming, is that just you against the machine, or do you have a community of people you act in? And he got all excited. Oh, oh no, grandpa, I've got friends, I've got friends in other countries, I've got friends at school and all that, and we meet at eight o'clock at night and we spend an hour on a game and all that stuff. We compete, and he got animated about that. So one of my other uh things that I do with my grandkids is if I find an interest, I go search out a book that's in their interest. I read it to make sure it's appropriate. If it is good and appropriate, then I buy them a book in their name, delivered to their house in their name, and then we talk about it. And for him, I wrote, I bought the book Metaverse. Now, I'm gonna tell you that was so far over my head, it wasn't funny. I I it had to do with us learning on with these artificial visualizations and sounds and all, like a simulator, if you will, and that that's the way the kids will learn in the future. But it's gaming, it's like the same gaming set and all the noise and everything else. That tied the two of us together, and we we were traveling together one day and had a three and a half hour conversation. The same kid that gave me one word answers the year before. So that's a way to find an interest, cultivate that interest, and respect them where they are, because I didn't want, I did not particularly want to learn about gaming, but I did.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

Well, what have your own experiences taught you about what kids truly need from the older generation? And um, what legacy do you hope to leave behind for your family?

SPEAKER_00 30:39

I think what kids need is to feel safe, and they need an adult other than parent in their life, and what better job for a grandparent than that? If they feel they that just makes them feel more secure within themselves that they have somebody they can talk to, and it's different with all my children, all my grandchildren. Some of them, one of them's 37 years old and down to the great great is one-year-old, so not a lot of conversation there. But it you find a way into them, for instance, when they're small, uh, when my grand up to about nine or ten years old, I was famous for what I call the upside-down hug. And at say my seven-year-old grandson, I'd walk up to him and I'd say, Come here, Rodney. And I'd take his arm gently and I'd start pulling him to me, and he'd start to giggle because he knew what was coming, and I'd say, Do you know what Grandpa Neil loves about you? And by then I've got him and I've got him turned upside down. And he'll say, What? And I shake his lunch out of him, and I holler everything. Do you know my 37-year-old grandson still jokingly aspires upside down hug, and he's six foot two and 240 pounds? But it makes a connection with them, and if you make them feel special, what was it? My Angelo said, People don't care what you say or what you write, but they care about how you make them feel when they're with you. That's a paraphrase. That is exactly what you can do with your grandchildren. Connect meaningful connections with each one of them. And it's different with everyone. I have a grandpa, a grandfather friend, Winston has a um he has 14 different handshakes. He has 20-some grandkids and 14 distinct handshakes, so that each one of them feels special every time he sees them. So that's that connection piece, and that's what they need. The other is they need to be they need to feel accepted just the way they are. Mr. Rogers had it right. And if there's behavior changes necessary, if you accept them where they are, and then help them to come out of some of those things from there. So that that is and that when they're younger, it's easier for the connection piece. Um, three of my great-grandchildren came into my life through marriage. My grandson married a young lady, and she had already had some teenage kids. That was a totally different challenge for me. Now we've all we've all found ways to connect this point in time, but you you find it it's incumbent upon us to find that connection within them and help them to feel secure and safe. And then they want to talk to you. And if they get backed against the wall, my grandkids know, all of them, that they get a get-out of jail free card. And I tell their parents that too. Now, if it's something that will harm them, or if they're in danger of harming themselves or anything like that, they know I'll go to their parents. But anything short of that, they can confide anything in me, and they have a lot better chance of not going off a deep end, if you will, by having someone that they feel comfortable enough to come to.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

Well, if every grandparent listening would take one action within the next 24 hours to strengthen a relationship with their grandkids, what would you want that action to be?

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Just sit down at your phone and text every single grandchild, just thought of you, it made me smile. Or my other famous one is you are super calipragyolistic as expialidosis. Can't even say it right. I I text that to my grandkids because it brings a smile. I do not expect a response, but texting is what the kids look at today. I can email them all day long, I can go on Facebook all day long. They may or may not check that, but they all get a text. So an affirmative text to every single one of your grandchildren, not in the next 24 hours, in the next hour, will totally start to turn things around.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

Tell us about any upcoming projects that you're working on that listeners need to be aware of.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

That's that's why there's a there's a ton of things that you individualize with my my group my one grandson. Um he he he's mechanic, and he and I talk. I I spent uh years as an aircraft mechanic in the Air Force, and when I came out, and we have that in common. Well, he'll call me and ask me a mechanics question from time to time, and that may be all. But then other times he'll tell me about he's got plans to build a garage out behind his house and work on cars and still just really take off. That's a different, that's 37-year-old. Now, my little six-year-olds and stuff like that, it's a totally different conversation. And sometimes I can hit them or find out, or I can find out they've done something in baseball or whatever, soccer, and and that's a connector with them.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Well, um, the website is caring grandparents.com.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Yeah, yep.

unknown 37:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

That that website that has uh just to give you a little bit of an idea, there's over 400 articles on that that I've written about everything about grandparenting, much of the philosophy of what I have, and all the books are listed there, and I also list all the organizations people can go to. Um in my books, each chapter deals with a segment of grandparenting. For instance, grandparents that are thrust back into parenting, I call them grand heroes. Um there's a lot of resources in that book, and a lot of resources on my website of who to contact. If you suspect abuse of one of your grandchildren, that is not something you deal with. If you it every law enforcement agency or any agency at all tell you, you do not confront the abuser, you go get someone professional to help you with that. But if that's an issue or you feel there's a safety issue, there are resources for that. And caring grandparents.com has all of that on it. I've had that website for 18 years and put everything on there.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

Well, America's grandpa, I would like to take this time to thank you for your service in the Air Force. And um, you know, I would just like to tell people you might not be a grandparent, but there are people out there that also please share this episode to them because Neil is great. I'm glad I met him at the National Publicity Summit this year and was able to get him on to share his wisdom and uh go pick up his books, go visit that website, caringparents.com, share that also to keep up with living the dream with curveball and know when we release new episodes. Visit www.curveball337.com and also share that website as well as the show to everybody that you know. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. And Neil, thank you for all that you're doing. America's grandpa, and thank you for joining me.

SPEAKER_00 39:45

Curtis, thank you so much for this platform. I I want to give everybody this a way I can. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

For more information on the Living the Dream with Curveball Podcast, visit www.curveball337.com. Until next time, keep living the dream.