Empire of Dreams: Tommy Dorfman on Resilience, Revolution, and the Fight Against Live Nation**

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Live in the Dream podcast with Curveball. If you believe, you can achieve.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Welcome to the Live in the Dream with Curveball Podcast. A show where I interview guests that teach, motivate and inspire. Today I am joined by the founder of Juice Entertainment, Tommy Dorfman, better known as Tommy D. Tommy D has a journey that seems like it should come straight out of a movie. At his 16 years old, Tommy D was living on his own promoting his underground house parties, which launched him into being one of the most influential and influential promoters on the East Coast. He uh helped develop uh a found club bliss which is uh known and has recognition for having uh the greatest sound system in the world. So we're going to be talking to Tommy, and one of the things that we were talking about is Live Nation. Tommy has for more than a decade been in a legal battle with Live Nation. So we're going to be talking about his legal battle, gonna be talking about his head injury that he suffered before he kicked things off, and everything that he's up to and gonna be up to. So, Tommy D, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

Thank you so much for having me on, Curtis.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Why don't you start off by telling everybody a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Yeah, my name's uh Tommy Dorfman, known as Tommy D in uh the club industry. Um I I grew up in a working class family. I went to tons of concerts as a kid, as concerts were affordable at that time. Um, so my dad took me to, with me and my sister Colleen to Bruce Springsteen, Michael Jackson, Prince, Motley Crue. I was fortunate enough to be able to go to all these concerts because they were affordable. Um and I got a passion for music, and my dad was my idol. Um my dad passed away when at a at a young age for me, around uh 12 years old. And actually around 13 years old. I actually people think my first parties are at 16. My first parties were actually like 13 years old. I was on the beaches. I'm from New Jersey, and the beaches of Wildwood, New Jersey. I actually threw keg parties on the beaches, uh, on the beach for people that were like 16, 17, 18 years old. The lifeguards bought me kegs, and I charge people for kegs on the beach. So that was my first parties. Um, 16 years old. My mom remarried, it didn't work out the best. Me and my mom are awesome now, she's great. Um, so I ended up uh being on my own. Um, I was on the street, and then I uh rented house, got a little money after a party in the woods to get enough money to rent a house, and I started renting houses. And through these houses, I started throwing parties. Um, it was the DJs at the time. I was into all different music. My idols were like Tupac growing up, just so you know, in Bon Jovi, next mix, right? And um these these parties, um, then I was able to get these houses and to keep paying for the houses, I was throwing underage house parties. Some of them were pretty crazy. Hundreds and hundreds, sometimes 500 people in my house. Um, my people falling through the ceiling, um getting in trouble, getting locked up for serving miners, even though I was a miner. I don't know what happened, that's why I got off that. Um, but that's where I started off really in the business. And it was called house music then. And that's how I got into house music because the DJs were playing it and the people liked it. I started going to uh Curtis, all the New York City clubs like Limelight, Tunnel, Carbon, these are legendary clubs back in the day. And I started bringing a lot of people there with me. After these house parties, I would bring late after hours nights, 200 people would follow me to these clubs. And I was just doing it because I enjoyed the parties and I enjoyed the music and I enjoyed the culture. And then one night somebody was like, Hey, I'm gonna um, you want to get paid a dollar ahead to bring these people here? I was like, Wow, this is cool. Now I can throw uh I got kicked out of a lot of houses on these house parties. I'm like, wait, I can do this legitly and get paid and not get in trouble? This is awesome. After bringing those people, getting a dollar ahead and being successful doing it. I was like, you know what? I want to create a club empire. And that's how my career really started.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Well, what did living on your own at such a young age teach you about survival independence and believing in yourself?

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Yeah, it teaches you a lot, you know, builds definitely builds you a lot of thick skin, I'll tell you that much. Um, and you learn a lot. Um, my dad taught me a lot of codes when I was young, and definitely one of the things was doing right by others and being loyal. Um, and you know, you go through a lot of struggles on that, anybody, anybody on your own at that age. I don't wish it upon anybody. Um, I don't want it for my kids, anybody else's kids, but there's a lot of us out there, like you know, I mean, I'm just one of them, you know, millions and millions. But it I guess it really teaches you, you know, to mature quicker and to realize how to survive faster, you know? And it's definitely challenging, I will say that. But it definitely taught me, it definitely taught me, I guess, uh how to fight, not give up, um, and not quit. And that's probably why I battled Lab Nation for so many years. And how I was able to become successful, actually, was probably from going through all those tough times as a kid on my own.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Well, I know that in the green room you were talking about a major head injury that you stuff, you know, before you got things kicked off. So uh talk to the list about that.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

Yeah, so I was doing um, and that was something I didn't really speak about. Um, I'm only speaking recently because it's something I hid from the whole industry for 16 years in it, and over my 16 years litigation versus live nation, because I never want anybody to hold think something against me. I have always looked at it as a weakness. My fiance in recent times is like, look, this is a strength, this is inspirational, this can help other people. So I've been speaking about I'm still a little uncomfortable because I hid it for so many years, even through the whole club industry. So when I was throwing all these house parties, very got successful at house parties, you know, you know, and I started doing the events in the clubs, just a smaller guest list. I started moving and I was gonna do get into the club industry. I wanted to do my first event. But at that time, I went to a house party in another town that I was invited to, and I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I was standing there, and all of a sudden, boom! I was on the ground. I don't know any, I couldn't see anything. There's blood pouring out of my head. I blacked out. I got up, um, I got rushed to a hospital. I got somebody ran up, assaulted me, trying to hit somebody else, ran up from 50 feet behind uh and hit me with over the head with a gallon bottle of vodka. Fractured my skull. I'm a little uncomfortable talking about it, to be realistic with you, because I haven't I don't haven't done it much. Fractured my skull, um, and I had internal bleeding. I got helicoptered, then to another hospital. They gave me a the doctors were giving me a 1% chance of actually just even living and surviving that I had to get brain surgery. Um I got the surgery, St. Joseph's Hospital, Patterson, New Jersey. God bless you, thank you. Um I went through the surgery and I survived. When it came out of the surgery, I was 80% blind at that time. 80 to 85%, and I had no perfect peripheral vision. Um I had a hard time even speaking, hard time even getting words, hard time walking, um, which was a big shock for me, obviously. At the time, massive panic attacks, anxiety, all sorts of issues. The doctors told me I would never be able to have a regular life, I would never be able to be successful, and I'd be on disability for the rest of my life, and that would be my life. Um, I went to a rehabilitation center, great one, castle rehabilitation in New Jersey. Dr. Fellis, um, he's had some issues, but I'll say anything. That's one of the top doctors in the world, this guy saved my life. Um, I went to the rehabilitation center there. I was there for four months. Um I should have been there a lot longer. I got kicked, I was back at my mom's house again. I got kicked out again by her husband. Um, and you know what? I left the rehabilitation center and I said, I'm gonna create a club empire. That's what I wanted to do before I had the head injury. And I'm like, I'm not gonna let anybody stop me. So at this point in time, I worked on getting my first party. I got a Wednesday, there was a mob owner club in New Jersey in Paramis, Cocomos, New Jersey, Cocomos was the club, Panamis, New Jersey. I got a Wednesday night deal from him, and it was six months out that I got a deal to do a Wednesday. For six months, I worked um about 20 hours a day, seven days a week, promoting college campuses outside every single night club, through malls, face-to-face, all face-to-face interaction. Um, working around the clock myself with one team member, and we didn't have any money either, um, to promoting this party. I promoted the party, uh did over 1,500 people the first night when and nobody partied in Wednesdays uh at New Jersey in the time. Did 1,500 people that first night. Um, and that's that's where my career started. And I hid this, hid this industry. I mean, I hid this injury through my whole entire career. I have a huge scar on my head, and I always dress the scar up. Sometimes, like Valentine's events, I would put like I would let the designers um that did my hair put you know, hearts on there. Um, you name it, and I always told everybody it was just designs, and I'd always make different designs because I never wanted people to hold this against me like as a weakness. So I hid it for all the years in the industry, no one through the whole nightclub industry or through my battle against lab nation, even know that I had a traumatic brain injury um and overcame it. I luckily enough did get my vision back. Um, by the time of the party, I was around probably 50 percent. And my brain, other areas work luckily, and I was able to get my vision back. I didn't over time learn how to get all other things, most most everything back. It was a struggle, don't get me wrong, real big struggle. And um, that's um that's how I started my career.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Well, what was the biggest manfit shift that you had to make uh when transitioning from doing your house parties to becoming a big club empire?

SPEAKER_02 11:23

The biggest transition was first doing the house parties. You're just uh you're throwing parties, anything goes. There's no rules, there's no regulations. You're just charging people to get in, and anything goes, you know. Crazy things happen. You move into the clubs, you know, you got laws, you got regulations, you got rules. And also it's a much bigger scale, you know. Now, you know, you talk to 1,500 people. I moved up into 5,000, 10,000 people running five parties a night. Um, so had to adjust to bringing massive audiences in, massive crowds, a lot more work, a lot more time, and a lot more knowledge that you've learned through a lot of failures.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

What about to the listeners about Club Vis to tell us about that venue and uh beyond the music, what made that venue so unforgettable?

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Yeah, so to get there first, um we're fast forwarding a little bit, but after like 13, 14 years in the business, running clubs from the all legendary Sound Factory New York to Club Karma, where they did the Jersey Shore down in um Seaside Heights, and every major club over time, we started from nothing. Me and my team built it to the top. We were running every single major club for the house music, EDM, New Jersey, New York, Miami. Then I opened my own nightclub. Um, and to answer that for you, what I learned was from a lot of clubs I was in, and I was a promoter at so many clubs, they would have they wouldn't spend money on they I would go into some clubs, they're like five million dollar clubs they opened up. But their sound system sucked, their lighting sucked. Um, and I would have to rent sound and lighting in brand new clubs, and people were like, this is crazy. But lighting and sound, especially sound, is so huge. So I learned so much from all these clubs that I promoted in over all the years that I realized, you know what? I need to have the best lighting system. I need to have the best sound system. I put a sound system in. Um, it was called TurboSound. At the time, it was only used in stadiums. At the time it was called Giant Stadium, became MetLife, my thing with Lab Nation. And they had it for Prince's concert right before mine. Um my club opened up. So I put a sound system for a stadium in a nightclub. It was a big rest. Um, it really paid off. All the patrons loved it. I got the top DJs in the world, and I ended up winning the number one sound system in the world. Lighting system. Um, I had LEDs that probably rival what you see in the major clubs today, going back, you know, back many years. Um, DJ controlled every single piece of lighting through the whole entire club, and we didn't cut a corner, you know. And I learned a lot of stuff from all the years in the club industry. What was wrong in run club, what was right. I made the bar set up where it would make the most profit. Um, and you know, put it in there for the fan experience, the best for the fans.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Well, can you share a moment where everyone doubted your your vision that you were trying to create, but no matter what they said, you still stay committed.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

In in what area? What time?

SPEAKER_01 16:09

In any area that you want to share, you know, your your nightclub, any kind of vision that you had where people doubted you and said, Oh, it ain't gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

Yeah, well, I'll go back to when I first started in the business. My family told me, Go to college, you can't do this. And I was like, nah, I'm gonna create a club umpire. So I was doubted there. Then when I was real successful, they're like, We never said that. That's how it always works. Um in Bliss, I would just say so many times to the industry. People told me people told me I couldn't do a Wednesday night when I first started. I packed out a Wednesday night. Then um, when I was doing my nightclub, Latin music, I had I had EDM as my scene, but Latin music was really only like in the inner cities in New Jersey. And at the time, the towns weren't really, you know, the towns weren't really cool, which wasn't cool. It's not like it is today. But they were like, Yeah, we Latin ain't gonna work in a in in these suburban towns, and that's the club. So I was like, I'm gonna put on a Latin when Latin parties are awesome. I go through them all the time. I love the music, the culture loves the party. You can go be 18 or 80 and they all party. It's awesome. And I'm like, I'm gonna put on a Wednesday night, just like I did when I first started in the minus in 1996 or 7. I'm gonna put on a Wednesday night and I'm gonna make a Wednesday party happy hour with food, salsa lesson, and then go pack it through the whole entire evening. I got a Latin promoter, um, Fiesta Caliente, they were awesome. I partnered with them, I brought them in my club. Everybody, my partners told me it would never happen. We packed out that Wednesday night, um, doing over 1,500 to 2,000 people a night, lines around the block for years and years. And it was something nobody said would ever happen. After that, it was exciting though, because I love the culture. The Latin became mainstream in New Jersey. They started becoming throughout the whole entire New Jersey and New York. People were doing in all different areas, different towns, didn't matter if it was suburban or not. Um Latin events, Latin parties between Saturday and Friday, and it was just really exciting to see that it helped expand that and build that market into an that culture, into other venues, other nightclubs, and that culture got to not be stuck and put in just in the inner cities because that's what people told them that had to be. So I was I was pretty proud of that. But you know, there's many other.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Well, let's talk about your battle with Live Nation. You you know, kind of tell us about that battle and and how it got started and where it's at or anything that you can you can't tell us because I realized there might be some stuff you can't.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Yeah, I'll I'll tell you almost everything. So uh and your listeners. So I had worked my way up from nothing to the and I I I achieved my goals. My goal was to build a club empire. I wanted to be like the club king, an empire. I created that empire, me and my team did. There were a lot of hard work. I won the number one sound system in the world. I was featured in almost every major publication that would be like equivalent of like winning Oscars in other industries today. And I wanted to get bigger, and to get bigger, I needed to get into the festival industry. And around 2010, I saw that house music, it wasn't called EDM then, was gonna go mainstream. I saw it was gonna be like the new rap, new rock and roll. So there was a massive uh fair in New Jersey called the State Fair in Meadowlands. 500,000 plus attendees, 100 plus rides, and it was at the biggest stadium. If you're any of your listeners aren't aware, but in New Jersey, it was MetLife Stadium, home of the Jets and Giants. Went for several weeks a year. They reached out to me. They built a massive concert space. You could do over 100,000 people all night. Uh yeah, with it through a festival. And my start off, I went I realized to get bigger, I needed to get into the space and I needed to do a massive EDM festival. And I was putting on the largest EDM festival in the East Coast. I had all the major DJs, the number one DJ in the world, Tiesto, Swedish House Mafia, you can pretty much name it. They were all so excited about the event. We had all our marketing in place. This place did just you know, Curtis, it was a turnkey operation. Uh, you had box offices set up all the years, from house parties to clubs. This is the easiest thing I ever had. They had everything in place, massive marketing in place for me. All we had to literally do was just get the talent, which I did the top celebrities in the world from Chris Brown, Charlie Sheen, the Kardashians, the celebrities they came to me for the celebrities, all the agents and the artists. All we had to do is put the talent on stage, which is very easy for me to do. We had everything in place. We had the marketing set up, the stages set up, we had the talent confirming, and this was going to be over 100,000 people. And I signed a 10-year, huge deal, biggest deal in my life, and bigger than most probably a lot of promoters out there that listen to this. 10-year exclusive deal to promote all concerts, all festivals, and all events. And this place had 500,000 people by itself before even my event. Company Live Nation Entertainment, they found out about it. Uh they came in and wiped it up and wiped it out in a click of a button.

unknown 21:45

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Where's the battle at right now?

SPEAKER_02 21:52

So the battle. Um they came in, they went on a multi-prong attack. They attacked the the landlord of the state fair Meadowlands, the the sports authority. Robber, Steves, we are. We're gonna kick them out of the contract. They attacked uh the owner of the state fair. They blocked all the talent and they threatened to withhold tickets from Ticketmaster. They gave me a they they gave me an ultimatum. I had to meet with Live Nation executives by this, I didn't want to, but the State Fair Meadowlands owner said meet with them. They're the 800-pound gorillas blocking all your talent and blocking all your ticketing and blocking your whole festival. Mat with them, they told me to kick out my two business partners um and partner with them. They would pay me and buy me and give me 50% of my festival, fund the festival and give me 50%. So um, but I wouldn't kick the business partners out because going back to my childhood, my dad at a um young age told me you'd never break your word. And I only had a handshake deal with these guys and I could. When I told them I wouldn't, they said they were blocking all the talent and all the all the talent and ending the event. They did. So that's what happened. Fast forward, it's been 16 years. Um, I lost everything. I went homeless again after this. Um I had to rebuild. I got a job to go on door to door selling cable because I couldn't get a job anywhere because my resume was so high. Paris Hilton, Kim Kardashian, Chris Brown, Fabulous, Kid Cuddy, Pink. People are like, what are you doing here? And I got good at that real quick, luckily. And that's what funded the litigation for me to sue Lib Nation. And I've been suing them. It's been 16 years. I have one of the longest cases, I think, in the United States, not even just like in New Jersey. That's not on appeal. I my lawyer said I would have a trial within one year. Live Nation was ordered by a federal court to turn over Discovery within 90 days. Judge Mannion out of New Jersey federal court, anybody wants to look it up. They refused to turn over the discovery. We fought for years to get it. My lawyer at the time finally said the plaintiffs are wearing out, they're welcome. But they're entitled to this information. To this day, I still only have 5% of the discovery. So we had to throw in a towel on Discovery because I ran out of money. And keep fighting Florida. It's a $36 billion company I'm fighting with 2,000 lawyers, 2,000 paralegals. I have one lawyer. His name is Andrew Smith. He's awesome. Amazing. He's better than an attorney's, but it's only one, you know? One version Army. And I'm waiting for a trial date. I had a trial date. The judge finally gave me a firm trial date. It was about like two years ago. And we subpoenaed the witnesses. We had a trial going. I was really excited. I'm like, because I've refused their money for 16 years. I sound, I got I found information in my case that was so disgusting, so bad what they do to independent promoters, what they do to fans with the legal kickbacks, you name it. Anyone could look at my expert report by Dr. Richard Barnett. It's just terrible. So that's why I didn't take their money for the fans and for the industry. And I finally had a trial date. And I was really excited. We were subpoenaing witnesses. And at the last minute, Live Nation's like, we want another mediation. We did 16 mediations. I didn't take their money. The judge allowed the mediation. You're forced in federal court to accept to have to go to it, even though we protested. Um now fast forward, I'm two years later. I'm not on appeal, and I'm still waiting my day in court. There's no some people look at it and think I'm crazy, but there's no statute limitation. Your constitutional right is a right to a speedy trial. It only involves criminal in the United States. People don't realize that. In civil, the court system and a company like Live Nation with their big live lobbyists and lawyers, they can drag it on as long as they want. And I'm just sitting there waiting a trial date still. The DOJ had their trial before me. I was supposed to be the first uh trial for taking them for being a monopoly, and I'm just still waiting a trial date.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Well, when you face major setbacks and and you know, things like business, the courtroom, my life, what is the process that you use to help you reset and continue to push forward instead of giving up?

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Yeah, it's that's a really good question, you know, and it varies the time. But um a lot of times, even just going back to my life with the head injury, I was about to give up, you know? And what I do is I think of my dad. My dad taught me through sports, you know, play all four quarters, play the whole game, never quit, you know? Do your best, you know. And that's something I really I think I think took to heart for me, you know? And I did that, I think, through the you know, my head injury. Never quit. You can do this, don't quit. When people told me I couldn't make it in the club world, nah, I can do this, don't quit. And I went through a lot of struggles. You don't just make it to the top. I failed many times, you know. And it was, you can do this, don't stop. Um, you know, then you can just go into my uh business selling door to door, you know, getting turned down 50 times, 100 times, people telling you no, no, no, and you need a sale just to buy food. Um don't quit. I built a pretty good business after this, it's successful now. But um, and then it ties even in and into the battle with live nation. And I think it really to me ties back to my father. Tell me if you believe in something, you believe you're right, you don't give up, you don't stop, and you do the right thing. And that's how I've lived my life. And um I'll credit it back to him as a child. And he passed away when I was young, but I learned so much from him, and that's what it is. If I when I believe I'm right, and I know I'm right, um, and you got your head. Anybody can accomplish anything if they put their mind to it, and I really believe in that. Um, I've seen it in my life over and over, and that's one thing for me. You know, so you know, sometimes I did think about throwing in a towel recently, like years past and a couple years ago, my mom's like, yo, take their money, you can retire. Um all the struggles you've gone through, you know, you've done enough to try to help the fans, to cheat, to help the industry. You know, and it gets tough at a time. But when I went into the I had a court hearing um this last November, I actually finally had a court hearing, it was a hearing. And it was in New Jersey federal court, and I went to that hearing, and um, I was promoting it out on like social media at a hearing. And listen, I I had to go to court when I was a kid. Nobody likes to go to court. And I walk up to that courtroom, and there's hundreds of people outside. I was shocked with like justice for Tommy D, shutdown live nation. I was like, wow, lower ticket prices. That's what I've been fighting for, fans just saying that guys. And I was like, yeah, I can't quit. I'm doing this for the people now. So, but you know, it does get hard at time. I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Well, when your story is finally written years from now, what what do you hope people say that Tommy D stood for not just in business but as a person?

SPEAKER_02 29:29

I hope that when my story is told, I hope first of all, real change happens. I hope the information that why I've continued this case I expose at a jury that I expose at a jury trial will lower ticket prices for fans, will allow independent promoters to thrive again because they've been wiped out by Live Nation, and bring them change the music scene to back how it used to be when there were so many independent promoters. And I hope people, um, I I guess I don't really look at it a legacy on myself. I look at for my kids, and my kids can look and see like, hey, daddy put all this time in. I have two boys, you know, and one of them wants to run a club. And I, you know, and I tell them you can't do it because a live nation. I don't like people telling you can't do it because they told me when I was a kid and I did it. And I hope I don't really care about my legacy. I hope for future generations, kids like me, when I was a kid, that want to create a club empire, they could do it because it can't happen now. I hope inspiring artists that want to become huge artists can do it because independent pendant promoters grow them. And I hope I guess the legacy, really not on me. I hope that the legacy

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SPEAKER_02 31:17

helps and affect future change and helps fans get lower ticket prices and affordable prices to go to a concert. People shouldn't have to decide to not. I I hope I guess people look back and say, you know what? I can go to a concert thanks to Tommy, and I didn't have to miss my rent or not make a car payment. You know, that's all I hope for. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

What tell us about any other upcoming projects that you're working on that people need to be aware of?

SPEAKER_02 31:46

Yeah, so great question, Curtis. And what I am working on right now, I'm working on it, I don't have a name for it, but I recently decided. There's so many groups in the music

(Cont.) Empire of Dreams: Tommy Dorfman on Resilience, Revolution, and the Fight Against Live Nation**

SPEAKER_02 31:55

industry. There's the artists' groups. Well, like one of them is called the the music music artist coalition. Sounds amazing. I'm like, ah, good, they're all for artists. But it's owned by it's there's like a monopoly that controls everything by Live Nation and their affiliates. It's owned by Irving Azov. He's the guy that created the Live Nation and Ticketmaster merger. And they're passing legislations across city and city and towns across this nation. And it's not for fans. There's other ones, a venue organization. Some of the people are good, but it's all for venues. Nobody speaks for the fans. And one of the biggest things, Curtis, I don't know if you're aware, but like when people go to concerts, there's this thing called dynamic ticketing. The Live Nation Monopoly Mafia uses. You go on a ticket queue, fans will know about this, and it says like it's a $50 ticket. Everybody's excited. They go on there. They make them wait hours and hours. By the time they check it out, the ticket's a thousand bucks. $800, $1,000. Now people have their girlfriends, wife, or kids there. And it's not a choice, it's a force to buy. And it's just ridiculous. And there's no, my opinion, there's nobody out there speaking for the fans. There's no organization for the fans. There's all the lobbyists, massive money out in all different areas. So I'm working on creating an organization now for the fans. I don't have a name for it yet. Fans first, maybe. I don't know. This is very new, but I'm going to do it. As I was told I couldn't create a club empire, I was told I couldn't survive. Told I couldn't even do business. Told I couldn't take Lab Nation on for 16 years. I never thought it'd be that long. I'm going to create this organization, Fan First, or whatever it's going to be called. And I'm going to build it through every single state in the United States. I'm going to have group leaders in every state. And then I'm going to build it through the world. And what we are going to do is we are going to demand, and with the power of the fans, they vote. And it's a bipartisan issue with ticketing and the monopoly of Lab Nation. We're going to demand the fans get what they want. Fans don't want dynamic ticketing, those crazy prices I told you about. We're going to tell our politicians, you either switch it, we vote you out of office. If they're going to allow Lob Nation to operate this monopoly and not allow competitors, not allowing little kids to thrive and throw on shows and wipe out the whole entire industry. You know, Lab Nation got a lot of money, $36 billion. They got a lot of lobbyists. And the politicians deal with, you know, take a lot. You know, but some legally. But I will tell you this. We have one thing as fans in our favor. We vote. And you can vote these politicians in, and you can vote them out. It's way more powerful than money. And I'm creating that organization right now, and I'm going to expand it to the United States. And anybody listening, you can reach out to me at Tommy Djuiceentertainment.com if you're interested in being a head leader from one of your states of the US or throughout the world. And I'd be love, love to speak with you. And um, I'm gonna grow this organization and it's gonna we're gonna push legislation forward that fans care about. Because right now, nobody cares about the fans. They're stuck on cues, they got bots, they there's uh they want ID checks right now. People are putting in their IDs, getting facial scans, and still not getting tickets from Ticketmasters, but sitting, taking off work for a day to do so. There's so many problems for fans in the industry, and no one speaks for them. So that's what I'm that's what I'm really focusing on now. And it wasn't something I ever planned on doing. And I just realized, you know what? I get courted by all these other groups coming to this. There's a big seat at the table, big one. You know what they're saying, you know. But I don't believe in it. So, you know, I'm off for sale. I've never, I think I showed that by not taking a lot of nations money for 16 years. So I'm gonna do what's right for the fans and I'm gonna create this organization. I'm I'm saying fans first, I don't know the name, but it's gonna happen. And I'm gonna grow it and I'm gonna build it like I built the club empire, but I'm gonna build it where it helps average citizens, average fans, average and independent promoters that don't exist or are getting wiped out, and emerging artists. People talk like the big ones, like Taylor Swift, okay? Absolutely. I actually turned down Curtis, you know, I turned down Taylor Swift for $2,000. People think I'm crazy. She was a country star at the time. She was moving into pop music. I had a hip-hop artist. I think it might have been fabulous at the time. I think MySpace was promoted, doing it for free for me. And I turned it on for $2,000. But you know what? There's a lot of Taylor Swifts out there. But you know how they get created? By independent promoters. That's who finds them, that's who builds them. So I also want to help artist development. And no one will speak out against Live Nation. The artists won't speak, the independent promoters won't speak because they're scared. And I don't blame them. This is growing worldwide. In England, their parliament just came out and said it's a they were shocked. It's a climate of fear. The artists are speaking behind the uh behind closed walls to them, will never use their name. Um, and the promoters, how they're being blacklisted from the industry or wiped out, or getting ripped off and robbed. Um, it's spreading across the nation. I have people reaching out to me from Germany, France, Australia. You know, so I'm building this a US thing, but I'm gonna build it as a world thing to really help fans help the industry and help the music industry. That really made my life. Because, you know, you take it back to my head injury. If it wasn't for music, when my dad brought me to those concerts, I would have never made it. I was listening to Tupac then, and that made me survive. Music, music is so much for people. Music is to me a basic human right. People don't see so a lot of people see it the way, some don't. And you know what? People deserve the right for the opportunity to grow in the music industry and hear the music they want and not have to pay thousands of dollars to go to shows.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Do you have a website? Uh whatever they have to, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

My website's Tommy D. Juiceentertainment.com. Um, my Twitter account, I only have like one person on it, but it's grown now heavily because live nation's top attorney in the world attacked me on it. Dan Walls is Tommy D. Prime Tim1. Um, I always get that wrong because my company was Tommy D prime time, but it's Tommy D. Prime Tim one. They can follow me on Twitter. Um they Google Tommy D, Tommy Dorf and the Live Nation. You'll see a lot of stuff out there on me. And um I'd love you anybody that's interested in caring about correcting the industry, bringing it back for independence, for the promoters, for the artists, and really for the fans, reach out to me. I'll help anybody I can. I'm willing to speak at any congressional hearings, senate hearings anybody wants me to. If you want me to come to uh if you're upset, live nation's coming into your neighborhood anywhere it is, and you want me to speak, I'm more than happy to do so. And um I would love you to join the movement with me and um help do something for the fans.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Absolutely, ladies and gentlemen. So you independent promoters, artists, independent artists and fans who love the entertainment industry, please uh check out everything that Tom is up to and uh stand with him and follow Ray Review, share this episode to as many people as possible. Also, for all of you who love the live in the dream with curveball podcasts and the guests and the topics that we have. Share the website www.curveball337.com and the show to everybody that you know. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. And Tommy, thank you for all that you're doing for uh artists in the entertainment industry, and thank you for joining me.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

Thank you so much for having me, and thank you for any of your viewers listening for uh taking the time to listen.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

For more information on the Living the Dream with Curveball podcast, visit www.curveball337.com. Until next time, keep living the dream.